RE: Honda's Civic is now U.S. best selling vehicle
Just confirms my thoughts that too many buy pickups/SUVs/etc as a
fashion statement, than needing one.
If a Civic will do, then why did they buy a pickup/SUV?
Maybe some sanity will come back to Pickup/SUV ownership and the
pricing that goes with that sanity.
I agree with you Ben in regards that too many buy/have bought pickups/SUVs as a fashion statement, rather than needing one.
My own personal theory is that many over the years, particularly since the availability of a wide range of full size, V8 cars have diminished significantly over the years , many have bought V8 Pickups and Suv's as a alternate substitution.
I believe that is one reason for the fact that the full size pickup, up to very recently has been the most popular vehicle in sales. Pickups, unlike the pickups of yore that have more comfort and luxury options available then many cars....and of course that V8 engine.
Now I know some might respond and say Chrysler has the 300c, Dodge the magnum, Chevy the Impala SS, etc.....all with V8's. While that is true, the numbers sold of these V8 cars, pales in comparison with the way it was back in the '50's, 60's and early '70's....when the V8, full size car reigned supreme and the pickup...was just a vehicle, mostly for the farm, ranch or commercial use.
I think that now fuel prices are very high, many people have had to look at their vehicle buying priorities....ie as the car show guy says....do I need a V8 pickup/Suv......no....do I want a V8 Pickup/SUV.....yes.....can I afford a V8 Pickup/SUV.....so off to the dealer and buy a Civic which apparently fills the bill for most people, while saving considerably on the gas budget.
Having said that, there are a # of people who do need a diesel-gas V8 (or Cummins) Pickup/SUV that tow with it, have very large families. But then they do need it.
Also, I know the appeal of having a healthy V8....having had more than a few of small block chevy V8's and small block Ford V8's in my vehicles of the past.
Maybe that's just 'uncommon' sense though.:)
Les
A definite trend I have noticed are large pickup trucks being advertised by dealers in their used car section. A local Ford dealer has the following today:
04- F250 4x4 diesel LIFTED with custom wheels (less than 15K miles) offroad tires etc., another - 06 F250 diesel LIFTED with MOTO (very expensive) wheels, 37" tires, and one more - '06 F250 diesel LIFTED custom wheels, etc. I am looking at pictures and these are all very nice rigs that have never seen any freight in their bed. One really wouldn't need to lift a truck for most commercial use purposes. I am in a pretty high-end area of So. Cal and I bet is these were all "fashion statement" vehicles. Now that diesel is $5.00 plus bucks a gallon my bet is they are being traded in more something that is a lot smaller.
Of course, the dealer still has "pie in the sky" prices on them. What else is new......
RE: Honda's Civic is now U.S. best selling vehicle
Just confirms my thoughts that too many buy pickups/SUVs/etc as a
fashion statement, than needing one.
If a Civic will do, then why did they buy a pickup/SUV?
Maybe some sanity will come back to Pickup/SUV ownership and the
pricing that goes with that sanity.
I agree with you Ben in regards that too many buy/have bought pickups/SUVs as a fashion statement, rather than needing one.
My own personal theory is that many over the years, particularly since the availability of a wide range of full size, V8 cars have diminished significantly over the years , many have bought V8 Pickups and Suv's as a alternate substitution.
I believe that is one reason for the fact that the full size pickup, up to very recently has been the most popular vehicle in sales. Pickups, unlike the pickups of yore that have more comfort and luxury options available then many cars....and of course that V8 engine.
Now I know some might respond and say Chrysler has the 300c, Dodge the magnum, Chevy the Impala SS, etc.....all with V8's. While that is true, the numbers sold of these V8 cars, pales in comparison with the way it was back in the '50's, 60's and early '70's....when the V8, full size car reigned supreme and the pickup...was just a vehicle, mostly for the farm, ranch or commercial use.
I think that now fuel prices are very high, many people have had to look at their vehicle buying priorities....ie as the car show guy says....do I need a V8 pickup/Suv......no....do I want a V8 Pickup/SUV.....yes.....can I afford a V8 Pickup/SUV.....so off to the dealer and buy a Civic which apparently fills the bill for most people, while saving considerably on the gas budget.
Having said that, there are a # of people who do need a diesel-gas V8 (or Cummins) Pickup/SUV that tow with it, have very large families. But then they do need it.
Also, I know the appeal of having a healthy V8....having had more than a few of small block chevy V8's and small block Ford V8's in my vehicles of the past.
Maybe that's just 'uncommon' sense though.:)
Les
A definite trend I have noticed are large pickup trucks being advertised by dealers in their used car section. A local Ford dealer has the following today:
04- F250 4x4 diesel LIFTED with custom wheels (less than 15K miles) offroad tires etc., another - 06 F250 diesel LIFTED with MOTO (very expensive) wheels, 37" tires, and one more - '06 F250 diesel LIFTED custom wheels, etc. I am looking at pictures and these are all very nice rigs that have never seen any freight in their bed. I am in a pretty high-end area of So. Cal and I bet is these were all "fashion statement" vehicles. Now that diesel is $5.00 plus bucks a gallon my bet is they are being traded in more something that is a lot smaller.
Of course, the dealer still has "pie in the sky" prices on them. What else is new......
RE: Giant RV show in Pomona Fairplex
I wouldn't expect many "real" bargains... ...
Especially when the event is sponsored by only one "giant" rv dealer.
Where's the "real" competition in a showing such as that?
They are carrying RVs that are dinosaurs. They have class "C" that get 8mpg (gasoline) they are still trying to sell at a high price. I looked at a new Skyline TT floorplan that I really liked.
The class "A" area was like a ghost town. Pretty high end rigs just sitting there with no lookers. This was Saturday morning about 11 a.m.
I am playing a "wait and see" with these gas prices before upgrading TT and tow vehicle....
Talk about wasted energy moving these rigs over to Pomona and back to where they came from!
RE: Honda's Civic is now U.S. best selling vehicle
Those cars are too dangerous to put your whole family in, and then hit the road. Imagine being in an accident with a larger vehicle, and then loosing a couple family members because you had to save a few bucks at the pump. Before I'd do that, I'd take a bus, or ride with a friend with a larger vehicle. I can never forget when I saw a Corolla with the back seat full of kids pass me on I95, and then stop quick in front of a Publix semi, the only thing you could see sticking out of the semi's front bumper was the steering wheel forward of the car, what a shame about the kids. I guess it's all a gamble to save a few bucks though.
Posts like this always amuse me. In Europe, a Ford Focus size car is considered a "family car" due to the very high cost of gasoline.
Families are not dying left and right on their highways either.
I am looking at upgrading my tow vehicle. A 2006 fully loaded Eddie Bauer Expedition (with 40K on it) can be had now for $18,987.00 and that's the dealers "asking price". Many people are dumping those SUVs in favor of small cars...just look at the sales numbers last month.
RE: Honda's Civic is now U.S. best selling vehicle
Almost all Honda Civics are built in East Liberty, OHIO (that's in the United States in case you didn't know). And, believe it or not, they're built by AMERICANS. Another surprise, eh? Yes, a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing.
The profits however go back to the motherland.
Yes. the profits do go back to Japan. So what! These Japanese car companies provide thousands of AMERICAN JOBS to all our fellow Americans that put them together, distribute them, sell them, and service them. NOT TO MENTION the various independent suppliers that support the manufacturing process with various parts, sub assemblies, services, etc.
The profits go back to Japan....SO WHAT!
RE: Tow Vehicle Question
I'm a newbie to this site and I have enjoyed reading the forums to this point. My family and I are looking to purchase our first TT and I have some questions for the towing experts who reside here.
First: TV is a Toyota 4 Runner V-6. According to the owners manual the max tow wt is 5000 and 6700 with a weight distributing hitch.
Second: First choice for TT is Amerilite 25BH with a dry wt of 3940.
Third: I am willing to buy the weight distributing hitch, brake controller and just about anything else needed to increase the safety of the towing experiene.
Fourth, Use: TT will be used for 1. tailgating, I have Cowbooys season tickets and live in Dallas area, 2. weekend trips of less than 200 mi roundtrip, 3. the once a year 500 mi or so trip to coast and/or Ruidoso to ski.
Any thoughts on safety, suggestions, etc for this set up would be greatly appreciated!
thanks to all who contribute.
I tow w/ an '05 4Runner with the V8 and 2WD. It is the Sport Edition with the X-Reas suspension set up.
I would not suggest towing anything longer than about 20 feet. I tow a Forest River Rear hard slide expandable and the box itself is 21 feet long. All the research I did indicates the 4Runner with the 109.5" wheelbase is not suited for towing anything longer than about 20 feet.
If you are dead-set on towing 25 feet I would not do it without a Hensley hitch.
I would consider a shorter unit.
Good luck!
RE: Severe sway with '08 4Runner
I tow a 21 foot travel trailer with a '05 4Runner Sport w/ 2 wheel drive. I am towing 21 feet because that is the longest I knew I could go according to all my research. As others have said - the trailer is too long.
Gas prices have taken the magic away......
I always wanted to get a bigger tow vehicle and trailer. I am looking in the paper and $12,000.00 (F150s/Chevrolet 1500) discounts are not uncommon now and can be had without negotiation. My wife and I have a 21 foot (with a queen bed rear expandable) travel trailer that we tow with a V8-4Runner. We would have like something bigger in the 27 to 30 foot range. Either a 5th wheel or another TT and a tow vehicle to match.
But now with gas/diesel prices at an all time high - it has taken all enthusiasm out of buying anything RV wise.
Down the road when the 4Runner wears out, we are considering an even more economical tow vehicle and a Trailmanor.
Sadly, this new energy situation will affect all of us in ways we do not even know
.
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
There is no "upside" to giving up. This attitude is completely devastating to our nation's well-being in the long term. How do you face the next generation and tell them we "gave up"? What do you think the generations to come will do for work? How many burgers can they flip? There is a HUGE downside to this mega-trend. You might get a cheaper shirt today ... but the cost tomorrow will be much larger. Trust me on this. And along with it ... we are losing our industrial base. THAT is a major loss when it comes to manufacturing. You might have given up ... but I haven't, and won't. And I won't sell out my fellow American workers. It just doesn't make sense to me. Sell out your country in order to have a cheaper TV, T-shirt and a radio made overseas? Tell me THAT makes good economic sense, seriously.
Are you a member of a labor union? Labor unions are one of the causes of manufacturing being shipped overseas.
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
So you conclude then that we give up ... and forget about competing with foreign goods and imports? Do you realize what the long term consequences are for our economy ... not to mention what that means for future generations of Americans? In effect, we will have been colonized as Warren Buffett puts it. I can't believe that all Americans can go willingly down that path given our proud history and our entrepreneurial spirit. THAT is not the America I grew up in and know so well.
We have given up. I grew up in the an area that was heavy blue collar manufacturing in Southern California. One could grow up and graduate high school and work at Ford, Firestone, Wes Clock, and many others.
Those jobs are gone forever.
If anyone thinks we are going to sew t-shirts, or any of the other manufacturing jobs that have been lost in the last 35 plus years, your kidding yourself.
So you can reaffirm to yourself all of the above - but it's not reality.
Most Americans have already gone down this path....look at Walmart, they are the top retailer in the U.S.
You have not mentioned the upside - and that is that the goods manufactured abroad, and thus the lower costs, translate in to much cheaper prices in today's dollars.
Shoes, clothes, televisions, radios and many other items are cheaper in today's dollars than 30 or 40 years ago.
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
We are Americans ... we always find a way. For every product out there, you can find one made in the USA. I find it hard to believe that we just throw in the towel and admit defeat. That has never happened in our nation's history.
I don't know if you can find a comparable product that is not made in a foreign country. I have heard (but don't know if it is true) that there are not any televisions sets made domestically anymore. But let's say there is one or two manufacturers that do.
You may be an exception, but the vast majority of people will not specifically seek out those two manufacturers. While it may or may not be short sighted, people are much too busy in their lives to seek out such details. This is the truth.
I give you an example - you cannot buy a 13" ST trailer tire made in the U.S. You are not going to find one.
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
Stew I totally agree with you. I will not even shop in Wallmart for that reason. But look how busy Wallmart is, and that is just the tip of the problem.
Was in J.C. Penny last week with the wife. She was looking at a purse. It was made in China. No matter where you shop, you are going to find it very difficult not buying Chinese or some other third world country. Are you not going to buy products made in Thailand because they have Child sex slavery? How about many of the trucks towing fivers and trailers, they are made in Mexico? Yea, Mexico is not communist per se, but it's pretty darn close, when you have the majority of the country poor and the wealth controlled by a very small group.
While I admire your statement...it's not very practical!!
RE: Thinking of Signing Up for Mountain Lakes (Lytle Creek, CA)
I get to stay there free using my Resorts of Distinction membership. Well not exactly free, ROD is $139 a year, unlimited 14 day stays at a time. I would try to find a lower cost Park that had a reciprocal with ROD.
Respectfully everyone,
While I appreciate everyones comments, I am looking for only those who have experiences there.
I am looking at low cost used memberships. This campground is only 15 MILES AWAY WHERE I STORE MY TRAILER. Therefore, two gallons of gas to reach my destination is very attractive.
Thank you.
RE: Thinking of Signing Up for Mountain Lakes (Lytle Creek, CA)
I stayed there once and listened to their pitch. Are you buying new or used? Personally, the new price is so high that it isn't worth it IMO. You could spend that money on camping for dozens or more vacations over a decade.
If you don't mind going to the same place, time after time, then I guess it is ok, IF you are getting a really GOOD deal on a used membership.
OK can somebody put a $$$$ amount on this? and is it like all of those expensive memberships, they sell a new one for $10,000 and people try to unload them for $999? is there an annual fee and can you just walk away or are you stuck for life?
bumpy
Used memberships are very reasonable. The Quarterly fees are something like $136.00.
Thinking of Signing Up for Mountain Lakes (Lytle Creek, CA)
I am thinking of buying a membership and was wondering if anybody has any experiences there. I did a search and all I could find out was they had good fishing, sites that are not level and lousy wi-fi connections.
How are sites on the weekends? Easy to get or not? I know holidays (Thanksgiving, Christmas, etc.) is hard and you have to get there early and spend the nights in your RV as you can let it sit in the site empty.
Anyone? Thoughts appreciated!!
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
I WOULD BUY A CHINESE TRAVEL TRAILER!
That is if they were competitive in every resepct to others on the market. (Weight, floor plans, internal parts, running gear, etc.).
I just bought a brand new Honda Accord (and it's really made in Ohio) because I could not find anything from a domestic standpoint that would fit the bill. I looked at Ford, Saturn, the new Malibu - nothing that I could drive a 150 miles a day for four years and stay together long enough to be paid for.
If it wasn't for the Japanese in the 70's...it's hard to imagine what garbage we would be driving today from an automobile standpoint.
We know Americans can do it...look at trucks, no one can touch us.
I say bring on the Chinese!! Maybe some of those lesser quality domestic manufacturers will get their act together!
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
I WOULD BUY A CHINESE TRAVEL TRAILER!
That is if they were competitive in every resepct to others on the market. (Weight, floor plans, internal parts, running gear, etc.).
I just bought a brand new Honda Accord because I could not find anything from a domestic standpoint that would fit the bill. I looked at Ford, Saturn, the new Malibu - nothing that I could drive a 150 miles a day for four years and stay together long enough to be paid for.
If it wasn't for the Japanese in the 70's...it's hard to imagine what garbage we would be driving today from an automobile standpoint.
We know Americans can do it...look at trucks, no one can touch us.
I say bring on the Chinese!! Maybe some of those lesser quality domestic manufacturers will get their act together!
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
I don't shop at those stores. And I make it a point to buy American whenever and wherever I can. I want my fellow Americans to have good jobs, with good wages, if possible. I just think it makes good economic sense in the long haul to try and keep Americans employed at a decent income level ... rather than shipping those jobs over the border or overseas. Make sense?
Stew
Stew to you and I it does, however in order for the worker to make a Good wage the poor ole Executives would have to take a cut in pay and benefits. Heck they might even need to drop to only 4 million a year in base salary, then how would they live.
Most have at lest one driver and a corporate jet at their beck and call free meals and we aren’t talking PB&J here. But after all they do have at lest 4 two 6 years Collage so they should make millions a year and the real worker only gets 7.00 to 14.00 per hour, after all this is America you know!
Don
Good point. Compensation at the executive level is obscene. This even holds true if the company has lost billions...the CEO still walks away with millions or billions! That's a good gig if you can get it!!
RE: Small Chinese Travel Trailer
I think we have done a great disservice to this country with all the outsourcing of products and jobs over the past ten years ... won't even get started with the Chinese trade imbalance that is threatening our entire economy at this point. Do we REALLY have to start buying Chinese TTs? I am working my own NAFTA struggle ... trying to bring back an AMERICAN made RVing show to the television.
If you are looking for a compact quality TT ... here's one made in the USA. http://www.olivertraveltrailers.com/
The "Oliver" was the brainchild of Jim Oliver ... he manufactures them in TN. I took a tour of one when I was in Quartzsite in January ... they are impressive. And they are made here in the old USA!!
Stew Oleson
If you are shopping at Sears, Kohls, Walmart, and numerous other stores you ARE BUYING Chinese.
Surprise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
